Guide data update

Its been a while since I have commented on the state of US guide data for MythTV here. That’s mainly been because I have been waiting for the situation to become more clear. At this stage there are some interesting things to report:

Zap2IT shutdown update

I’ve been silent on the Zap2IT shutdown issue for a week or so now, mainly because of travel, and also because I was waiting for something useful to happen. I’ve ready literally hundreds of emails of the users mailing list — many proposing architectures for distribution of data, or placing various demands about how much someone would be willing to pay for the data. I am yet to see someone actually sit down and write some code though.

So hence this update. There isn’t any useful news yet, except for a general reassurance that the developers promise that they are still working on a solution. So, keep on waiting is the plan for now…

…and then there was a pause…

I guess we’re at a different phase of the Zap2IT guide data thing now. The story has broken, there’s been tons of email on the mythtv-users mailing list (remember, don’t panic!), and now things have quietened down. I think that’s probably a good thing, because it almost certainly means people are now no longer distracted from actually sitting down and working on the problem.

I imagine that journalists would make up some sensational thing to say to keep the story rolling during this quiet news cycle. I can’t think of any such thing to say, and it wouldn’t be ethical anyway.

I must say that I think
coverage like
isn’t always helpful.

Some quick further thoughts on the Zap2IT shutdown

The Zap2IT forums has a thread about the shutdown (you need to have a Zap2IT login to get to the forum). One of the posts on the thread about the shutdown expands on the reasons for the free guide data shutting down:

– Continued use of the service to support commercial products, in violation of the agreement.
– Commercial products continued to grow despite previous appeals that this activity stop.
– There are significant changes to the supporting data structure forthcoming and we could not devote resources to the continued upkeep and enhancements of the service.
– Maintenance of the service is impacting our resource pool for other projects.
– We sought alternative options but were unable to find a solution.
– We recognize the hardship this creates for the user community. We are open to alternative solutions and would consider proposals that met the needs of the user community and our company.
– We looked into options to turn this into a paid service however we do not have the infrastructure at this time.

So it seems that the folks selling MythTV based solutions which used the guide data, as well as possible other commercial uses (the was no real way to check what system was connecting to the guide data) are the main reasons for the service shutdown.

That seems reasonable to me… It’s inconvenient for MythTV users in the US, but there are other guide data sources. It is certainly disappointing that people we misusing the free service and caused it’s shutdown for everyone.

An initial analysis of the removal of Zap2IT guide data in the US

(I had some spare time while waiting for the kids to finish their breakfast, so this is posted earlier than I planned).

As mentioned briefly earlier today is reporting that Tribune Media Services (TMS) is turning off their free guide data service for MythTV on 1 September 2007. This is mainly because of claims of abuse — the theory on the MythTV users mailing list is that this abuse is vendors selling pre-configured MythTV systems for profit, which use the not-for-commercial-use guide data service from Zap2IT.

The announcement from TMS reads:


For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004 we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data. Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses, combined with other business factors have led to the decision to discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.

We thank those users who have honoured the terms of the agreement, and we suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.

If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial use, please let us know by e-mail ( and include your company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.

We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.

There has been much consternation on the MythTV users mailing list about this announcement. There haven’t been a lot of helpful suggestions yet though. There is the assurance that the development team is looking into options, and some users are suggesting rounding up enough people to pay for a commercial license. The reality however is that this is likely not a big deal. I can think of a few possible outcomes:

  • Doom! The guide data stops, we all go home. This seems particularly unlikely though. It would take many people ignoring the problem, and just accepting that their MythTV systems are going to stop working.
  • Some sort of scraper using XMLTV is written. This is in fact how guide data is obtained for most other countries at the moment. This technique is discussed in my MythTV book (Amazon), and is well understood. I would expect new XMLTV grabbers for the US to start appearing in the next few days.
  • A conglomerate is formed to buy a commercial license to the guide data, and then sells that in XMLTV form to US based MythTV users. This option seems less likely to me, although not impossible. It would take someone being willing to buy the license for the data, on the assumption that enough people would actually pay for a XML feed. Lots of people have said they would, but there is already arguments over how much they would b willing to pay and it’s yet to be seen if those people will actually front up with the cash. It should also be noted that this sort of arrangement has been tried in other countries, and seems to invariably fail.
  • Another company steps up to provide guide data for free. There are lots of companies which have this data for their own uses now. Examples include the various TV guide web sites out there. They might chose to provide the data as a way of generating good will, as well as because providing the XML will cause less load on their systems than being automatically scraped to produce a third party XMLTV feed (the second option). This was the reason that the Zap2IT feed started being provided in the first place after all.

So, no doom yet. I’ll post more analysis as it appears.

Breaking: Zap2IT turning off guide data for the US? is reporting that Tribune Media Services (TMS), the providers of the Zap2IT guide data used by MythTV in the US, will turn that guide data off on 1 September 2007. I haven’t had a lot of time to look into this further, mainly because I am giving a talk this morning. I’ll have a better look at lunch time (PDT) and write some more about this.

I think there’s no need for panic, as a new guide data source will be found, but this is unexpected.